94 900RR Electrical issues??? Help

[dstix06]

A couple seasons ago my Regulator (stock) melted and several of my fuses and bulbs went with it. I replaced the battery and regulator(aftermarket) only to have the regulator go out almost instantly. Thinking it was faulty the shop replaced it for me. This time it lasted a couple hundred miles. This season I replaced the battery once again because the bike would kill the battery after running for about 15min. I went through the electrical fault finding flow chart to find I had a bad diode in the regulator. Replaced it with an OEM style unit with fins. Got anothe new battery (sealed). Wired it in and bike ran great for about 20 min. Now my stator case gets too hot to touch and the regulator gets hot too. Lights flicker a little. The stator output tests okay (65-68V AC on all 3 wires at 5000RRM and .4 resistane between the wires) Can the Stator be bad and still put out good voltage??? there is oil in the case to keep it cool and all grounds seem to be in good shape. CAN ANYONE HELP???? Only put on a couple hundred miles in 3 seasons and can't afford to keep buying regulators every 20 min.

[970rr]

I think if the stator specs are ok, then that's not the problem.
The only thing I can think of is that you replaced the reg/rec, ok, but the problem (or one of the problems) with that unit is not that it goes bad, but that it's not well grounded. Because the subframe where it bolts up is anodized and does not conduct electricity verry well.
Replacing the reg/rec is good, but is no help in grounding it better...
Grinding the anodize off the subframe should help, but surface should be kept as flat as possible.

It might be something else, but grounding is an issue for sure. It's been well documented on here, you can search the forum for the reg/rec threads.

Hope this helps, and that it's that simple... sometimes it is, sadly sometimes it's not...

[Biteable]

Not sure who it was but think it was Jawhn, sorry if it is not, but they made a template up out of copper to put under your rectifier, which you then attach a wire to ground.
Perhaps someone on here may still have the picture or direct you to the download

[mad dog]

what is the charge voltage at 5000rpm at the battery?

[dstix06]

Thanks guys. I did slightly grind down the mounting plate behind the regulator before remounting after I discovered the heating problem. It worked as a ground but It did not seem to make a difference. I also tried running a ground wire direct from the RR negitive terminal to the battery.

DC voltage at the battery seems to fluxuate between 13.98 and 14.20V at idle. at 2500RPM it hits 14.28 and at 5000RPM it only changes to 14.29. In the 4 mins it was running to do this test the regulator and stator got hot. Battery was 13.65v with the bike off and dropped to 12.98 when I turned the key on.:confused::confused:

[dstix06]

I saw the posing somewhere on the copper back plate. I was actually pricing out copper strapping to make one. Would theat really make much of a difference since I grinded the stock plate down enough to make a ground contact???

[jawhn]

Yeah, I'm the Tru-Ground guy. :EG Let me find the thread and post with the details...

If you don't care if it's pretty, just cut a rectangle out of copper to go behind the reg/reg and solder a good connection to it going to the battery. :z It does sound like you have a grounding problem... Have you gone through your harness and made sure none of the plugs are burned out? (Solid Green wires are grounds) Also make sure the ground cable from the battery to the top of the engine block isn't corroded.

[970rr]

I got a Tru-Ground on my bike:V

[dstix06]

Will a tru ground really help if im already getting a ground from the factory plate?? i don't have a ground from the plate to the battery terminal though. copper will help disipate heat better right?

I have gone through all the connectors as far as I know and don't see any burnt out. I suppose a wire could have in issue whithin the loom somewhere??? The battery cables are in good shape. Tight clean main ground.

How about the starter relay (main fuse) could something be shorted in that or would the main fuse pop?? It did smoke a little one time with the last RR

[the wonky900]

The truground made a huge cooling difference on my 94(thanx Jawhn). Even though its grounded the factory plate doesn't cool that well or provide a good ground. Its aluminumumumum, garbage for its purpose. All hail Jawhn!

[970rr]

Even though its grounded the factory plate doesn't cool that well or provide a good ground. Its aluminumumumum, garbage for its purpose. All hail Jawhn!

Not sure about that. On planes, everything is grounded to the aluminum structure. Mabee the alloy and the application on our blades just wasn't well thought of... if they affect the whole conductivity thing by a significant amount.
The anodize is really bad though.

Best I can say is to go to 'downloads' at the top of the screen, then miscelaneous, and go through the electrical troobleshooting step by step. Seems top notch. And quite a hastle, but waaay cheaper than going to a shop. Cause they'll probably end up doing that same test (or close to it)

[the wonky900]

I did kind of go on a little rant, but in comparison with or with out I noticed a huge difference and have had no issues since installing the mod. ;DOH It gets pretty hot here to almost desert hot. 100+ most the summer.

[jawhn]

You're all welcome. ;)

I noticed that my reg/rec absolutely ran cooler after I threw the first prototype Tru-Ground on. Feel free to go buy some cheap copper from a hardware store, drill 2 holes in it, wire it up and see. I'm not really making any money off of my idea...? :z And I didn't get the demand I thought there would be for it, so...

And yeah, copper cools better than aluminum, but it is more costly, and deteriorates a bit faster. (Oxidizes, or whatever)

[dstix06]

thanks everyone!!!!!! I'll keep pluggin away at the thing and see where I end up:CONF hopefully Ill be able to ride again in the next couple seasons:D ELectrical problems SUCK

[dstix06]

I created a makeshift copper bracket with a couple peices of copper flashing. Also upgraded to larger ground wires. Bike runs good and DC voltage readings seem good 13.98 idle 14.25 @ 2500 RPM and 14.27@ 5000RPM. Regulator and Stator still getting extremely hot. Hot enough so you can't keep your hand on them.:CONF

[jawhn]

I created a makeshift copper bracket with a couple peices of copper flashing. Also upgraded to larger ground wires. Bike runs good and DC voltage readings seem good 13.98 idle 14.25 @ 2500 RPM and 14.27@ 5000RPM. Regulator and Stator still getting extremely hot. Hot enough so you can't keep your hand on them.:CONF

Check the plug going into the reg/rec... If it's crazy hot also, try soldering around where the wires go into the terminals, then let us know if that changes anything. (If you can pop them out before soldering, it's a lot easier) :z

Sounds like you have the uber-common grounding problem. Now ya just gotta find out from where...

[dstix06]

A friend(Mechanic) took the bike for a couple days to check it out. He said he found a couple wires with high resisense and replaced the connections. Nothing else seemed out of wack.:CONF Could something that simple cause things to get hot???:confused: He also said it appears to already have had the stator changed out (meaning issues before I got it). Sometimes aftermarket stators can do weird things even if output readings are good. If problems persist I may try changing it just for $hits & giggles

[gothy]

A friend(Mechanic) took the bike for a couple days to check it out. He said he found a couple wires with high resisense and replaced the connections. Nothing else seemed out of wack.:CONF Could something that simple cause things to get hot???:confused:

it most certainly can

[dstix06]

:mad: turns out that did not help. Still extremely hot after a 15 min ride home. Bike is running great otherwise. The lights did dim on me for about 30 sec on the ride tonight:confused: May be an intermittent stator problem or I have resistence somewhere else???:confused: Any ideas out there?? OEM or Aftermarket stator????

[970rr]

If you replace the stator, OEM.
Besides that, your issues are way out of my league... sorry.

[Tiger Bike 94]

When I got my bike it had major electrical issues too... I feel your pain :( But after weeks of only being able to ride the bike for about 10 miles before charging the battery I started replacing stuff one at a time. Unfortunately for me I tried to save some money and replaced the stator with an after market unit, which worked great for a while. Then I had to replace the rectifier, I bought a new OEM one and I have been told by some other people, as well as seeing the difference for myself, that they made changes to the unit. It is definately visibly different from the original one, and I have not noticed a heat problem eminating form this part. Shortly after I was riding down the road and my bike shut off... upon investigating the problem I realized the battery was dead.. so I replaced it. the battery was in fact bad, but then when my bike died in the middle of a tight curve I dug in a little deeper. This time to my chagrin it was the stator that I had already replaced. Upon inspection the plug going into my factory wiring was melted, and I am lucky that it did not melt the factory unit. The main wire coming off the startor had detached from the wall of the stator case and the crankshaft slowly cut through it. This cause a great deal of heat....I wonder if, since the stator has been replaced, you may slowly be having the same problem. I have not had a problem since I replaced both parts with factory units. Hopefully this will help... this site has helped me alot

[jawhn]

Thanks for that, Tiger!

Another thing that is unbelievably monumental in fixing the grounding/charging problems in Hondas is simply soldering all connections in every plug. Every time I work on an electrical problem, I always remove the pins from the plug and solder the connection. It solves SO many issues... :z

[azsalezguy]

My bike died at a light on my way to work, charged the battery and checked it and it's good. According to my Haynes Service & repair manual I tested the ohm resistance between each of the three yellow wires coming off the stator and it's 0.1 ohm between each, and then from each to ground and they are all 0.1 ohm. Then I just tested each yellow wire for AC voltage based on the first thread in this post and they were: 0.8 V, 4.5 V, and 15.2 V at 5000 RPM. The haynes manual doesn't say to test it this way or what is normal output in AC. Does anyone know if my findings prove the stator is bad? The regulator/rectifier and battery are about 6 months old. Plus I have Jawhn's tru ground on it. Also testing at the battery was just under 12v at idle after starting and it barely goes over 12v at 5000 RPM. Any help is appreciated.

[jawhn]

Are you sure it's electrical? :CONF

Check out the electrical troubleshooter in our downloads section!

[Tiger Bike 94]

Well the Stator will still put out voltage as it is going bad, just like the alternator in your car, but it is not enough to sustain the proper charge in the battery. When mine went bad for the second time I noticed that when I would start the bike it would crank a little weak, but still start. I assumed tis was the battery, and went through two of them thinking that it was the battery that was bad. The stator was still putting out voltage, but there was a great amount of fluctuation when I pulled the plug an tested it directly, at idle it would go down to nothing at all. Because of this when I had the bike idling in my drive way it died! At idle the stator will put out enough voltage, 12 volts, to sustain the electrical systems of the bike. It wont charge tha battery until the RPM's are off idle, like 3,000. The result of me going through all of this is the bike dying while at speed, 50 MPH, in a corner. Right at the end it had a large surge and melted the end of the plug. It seems to me like your only guess is the stator, if you have a new OEM regulator and a good battery i would replace the stator, but go OEM ONLY! do not cheap out an go after market. If you are an AMA member bike bakdit offers a 10% discount, that is where i got mine and it was like a hundred and some dollars cheaper than the nearest bike shop..Hopefully this will help

[azsalezguy]

OEM stator prices I found:

Bikebandit.com is $317
hondapartspitstop.com $267.64
shspowersports.com $274.77
hondapartshouse.com $292.62
MRCYCLES.COM $247.30

Anyone know of anywhere cheaper?

[jawhn]

... Anyone know of anywhere cheaper?

Try www.zanottimotor.com - write down the OEM part number before you hit their site, though. They seem to beat everyone every time I've compared. They're mostly a Harley shop, but I've ordered many things from them, really good retailer. ;)

[azsalezguy]

Also found the following OEM stator prices online:

servicehonda.com $356.85
powersportspro.com $303.32
cycle-parts.com $356.85
houseofhondaparts.com $356.85
cheapcycleparts.com $265.23

I got fed up with looking online and called metro motorsports in Glendale, AZ (602) 843-5000 and they quoted me $357 (list) originally, but then after I asked about price matching the lowest I found, $247.30 they did it no problem. It should be in maybe Tues or for sure Wed and is less than 10 miles away. Should be riding again soon.

[azsalezguy]

By the way, that electical download (charging system finding fault flow chart) is great. I never saw the downloads before... I think there should be boobs on it or something to get our attention!

:ttiwwp:

Okay, okay...

[jawhn]

I simply cannot complain that Will uses any excuse to post Ms. salezguy's rack. :rolleyes:

:EG

[peg grinder]

Thank god 98's don't have fuel pumps.

[qudlatyz28]

This thread rocks. THAT IS ONE BEAUTIFUL SET of boobies.

we need more pics here, that's for sure.

Well i might be having the same problem. My 94 could not keep it's power so i got new battery than i got aftermarket reg,rec but everytime when i try to plug it in it 's blowing the 20A fuse.
What do you guys think about that?

[rons93rr]

:V:VI simply cannot complain that Will uses any excuse to post Ms. salezguy's rack. :rolleyes:

:EG

well i know that this is an old post but i have been chasing the same problem for 2 years and i have to say thanks jawhn. it cost me like $6 to do your fix with the copper and soldering a ground wire to it and i have to say IT WORKS i could not believe it such a simple solution.
THANKS AGAIN!!! YOU SAVED MY 93 900RR I WAS GETTING READY TO GET RID OF IT.:V

[jawhn]

:V:V

well i know that this is an old post but i have been chasing the same problem for 2 years and i have to say thanks jawhn. it cost me like $6 to do your fix with the copper and soldering a ground wire to it and i have to say IT WORKS i could not believe it such a simple solution.
THANKS AGAIN!!! YOU SAVED MY 93 900RR I WAS GETTING READY TO GET RID OF IT.:V

Very cool, you're very welcome, and welcome to the forums! Hope you stay around. If anything else goes wrong, we will try and help ya fix it. ;)

I'm wondering how you got it down to only $6...? :CONF Did you recycle some copper sheeting, somehow? That stuff cost me an arm to buy... Maybe I bought from the wrong source or something.

[rons93rr]

Very cool, you're very welcome, and welcome to the forums! Hope you stay around. If anything else goes wrong, we will try and help ya fix it. ;)

I'm wondering how you got it down to only $6...? :CONF Did you recycle some copper sheeting, somehow? That stuff cost me an arm to buy... Maybe I bought from the wrong source or something.

i was looking at home depot for a sheet of copper and of corse i could not find it there so i improvised i bought a copper cap for a fence post cut it and pounded it flat traced the voltage reg, to the copper and cut it to size. and i still have the other half just in case i need it so i could of fixed 2 bikes for about $6-$8. NOW THATS A DEAL.. i know it sounds like a hack job but it realy came out nice and the best thing is it actually worked (lol).

[jawhn]

... a copper cap for a fence post ...

Wow. Cool. I didn't even think of something like that. (And didn't know they made them out of copper...) Thanks for the tip, especially if people on here want to make their own. It's ridiculously easy, and even if they are cut with tin snips, no one sees the rough edge since it's behind the reg/reg, which is covered by the tail fairings! :V

[rons93rr]

Wow. Cool. I didn't even think of something like that. (And didn't know they made them out of copper...) Thanks for the tip, especially if people on here want to make their own. It's ridiculously easy, and even if they are cut with tin snips, no one sees the rough edge since it's behind the reg/reg, which is covered by the tail fairings! :V

it realy is easy and after i cut it out i just took my dremel w/a small sanding drum and smoothed it all out so it looked great. i would of paid $100's to fix this dam problem it cost me $300 in tow fees to have the bike towed 2 times.