Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: Major clutch issues

  1. #1
    Not been here that long Scantron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    16

    Default Major clutch issues

    Hey guys, Ive brought this issue up over at fireblades.org and Im looking for any more help I can get.

    So I bought a 93 blade, with 98 fairings, and a 919 motor. This still makes no sense to me, but anyway, I've been through hell and back trying to get rid of this damn slippery clutch. The thing has slipped worse and worse from the second I bought it, so I ordered friction plates for a 93, only to find out its a 96-99 motor. I also find out that I have ten friction plates in the clutch, and eight steel plates, indicating a 96-97 motor (10 frictions), somehow missing a steel plate (yes two frictions were on each other). So I ordered the plate and new springs, back to the old frictions, put it all in so excited, only to find out that theres no f'ing way ten frictions and 9 steels will fit. Because with all those in and the pressure plate on top, there is too much slack and free movement on that rod that pulls on the pressure plate via the clutch lever. So now I'm left wondering if it's a 98-99 engine, with the 8-plate set up. I have the shop manuals for all 900 models, but I was wondering if theres some easy way to differentiate a 96-97 919 from a 98-99 919, since I cant seem to figure out which one I have. Anyone have any specs or pictures of their clutches to share?

    ps-now theres a terrible grinding noise that occurs when first releasing the clutch (in broken super slippery clutch mode).

    Please help

  2. #2
    RRzone Butthead speedextreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    yuma, az
    Posts
    2,853

    Bikes:
    '99 FrankenBlade '77 CJ7

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    First off if you have the manuals read them. I don't think (I said think) that there is a differance between the 96-99 919 clutches? But I have been wrong before. Now, first off, "HOW" is it slipping? How have you come to determine it is "slipping"? If you are riding and going about 25mph in say 3rd gear and you go WFO throttle, if your clutch is slipping you should get a rev of RPM's without the bike going anywhere. If the motor "lugs" and continuously pics up speed with the RPM's matching speed then you are not slipping and you have another issue.

    But just read the manuals on installation and adjustment of clutch assembly and go from there. Best advice is "education by defacation". Meaning read the manual while you are taking a dump!!!

    Laters.
    Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, cigar in one hand, beer in the other, body used up, totally worn-out and screaming, "WOO HOO, what a ride!"

  3. #3
    Not been here that long Scantron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    ohhhhh, I thought clutch slipping was when I whack open the throttle and pink fairies come out of my exhaust.

    sarcasm aside yes the clutch is slipping, Im positive, I've had clutch slip on other bikes before, so the problem and the usual solutions are well known to me.

    I have the shop manuals to the 93-95 blade thanks to you guys, and Ive obtained the 96-98 manual and pretty much memorized the clutch sections of both, and I've exhausted all of the information in the manuals, so I'm seeking some type of extended information regarding the problem.

    The problem at hand isnt how I assemble or adjust the clutch, it's the question of which clutch I have, because the 96-97 and 98-99 clutches are completely different, trust meeee. I exhausted all means of adjusting the clutch to avoid slippage weeks ago and I've been going through hell trying to just figure out which clutch I have.

    Regardless of all of this, I'm abandoning the entire hassle, and buying a new motor. I found out today upon seeking the speed sensor (to determine the engine year) that there is a crack alongside the case by the front sprocket. I'm pretty sure it was caused by something going terrible wrong inside, because of the trouble the clutch is causing the transmission.

    http://itookthisonmyphone.com/media/..._568x454r0.jpg

    400 for a 95 893 motor seems worth it to me before I waste anymore money on this god forsaken 919

  4. #4
    RRzone Butthead speedextreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    yuma, az
    Posts
    2,853

    Bikes:
    '99 FrankenBlade '77 CJ7

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    By your photo, if that is just on the casing that is just to hold onto the sprocket cover. If that is what I saw, then just look over the rest of that area. If the crack goes beyond that area nad into the casing itself then worry. If not, use some JB weld and fill that hole/crack to beable to still use the sprocket cover. That type of crack can come from a chain coming apart.

    And "sarcasm asside", you should really think about how you ask questions on a forum! You seem to be knowledgable enough to know about some things, but then you go off and say you don't understand why you have a 93 blade with 98 fairings and a 919 engine, and that you bought it this way. Did you ask the guy why it was like that before you bought it? Because it sounds to me he had a 98 and wadded it up and bought a 93 roller and stuck all the 98 stuff in it? So I would guess that it is a 98 motor. Best bet, take the friction and steel plates to the Honda shop and see if there are any similarities between the OEM stuff and the stuff you have. The guy that put the clutch in (before you) could have also been a moron and didn't know what the hell he was doing. Heck I would even check with Barnett and find out if they sell a clutch kit for the 96-99 919 900RR motors? If they do, get that one kit and go at it.

    But you still haven't told us how you determind it is slipping!

    Rant done...
    Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, cigar in one hand, beer in the other, body used up, totally worn-out and screaming, "WOO HOO, what a ride!"

  5. #5
    Not been here that long Scantron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    Hey thanks for the reply, and after looking at that crack it looks like the main case isnt compromised, but still, this crack just appeared, and a terrible grinding noise with it, so Im thinking something went gone wrong inside the transmission or crankshaft. Regardless it doesnt fix my issue with the clutch and at the end of the day, I've spent over 150 on parts that didnt solve the problem and 400 on a motor running perfectly fine wont kill me, though the swap might

    are the carbs interchangable between the 893 and 919?

    Oh and I bought the bike from a middleman seller selling trade ins for dealers, Neither of us knew it was a newer engine, just that it was a 93 bike with a 98 body. And the continuous confusion for me is coming from why everything on the bike seems to be sh!ttier by the minute upon closer inspection (chain, suspension adjustment, gauge harness) . I won't lie I was retarded and bought the bike in a rush, that wont happen again.

    OK speed, if you must know , heres how my clutch is slipping. Accellerate from any gear, in first gear, no accelleration past 4k rpms, In 6th gear I can get the clutch to hold a little under 6k once its gets to my super high speed max, 75mph, past that its all slip. At least I'm following the speed limit

    vroom vroom go nowhere pretty much sums it up

    thanks for the help btw

  6. #6
    Not been here that long bikeserv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    cyprus
    Posts
    15

    Bikes:
    97 cbr 900

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Scantron View Post
    Hey thanks for the reply, and after looking at that crack it looks like the main case isnt compromised, but still, this crack just appeared, and a terrible grinding noise with it, so Im thinking something went gone wrong inside the transmission or crankshaft. Regardless it doesnt fix my issue with the clutch and at the end of the day, I've spent over 150 on parts that didnt solve the problem and 400 on a motor running perfectly fine wont kill me, though the swap might

    are the carbs interchangable between the 893 and 919?

    Oh and I bought the bike from a middleman seller selling trade ins for dealers, Neither of us knew it was a newer engine, just that it was a 93 bike with a 98 body. And the continuous confusion for me is coming from why everything on the bike seems to be sh!ttier by the minute upon closer inspection (chain, suspension adjustment, gauge harness) . I won't lie I was retarded and bought the bike in a rush, that wont happen again.

    OK speed, if you must know , heres how my clutch is slipping. Accellerate from any gear, in first gear, no accelleration past 4k rpms, In 6th gear I can get the clutch to hold a little under 6k once its gets to my super high speed max, 75mph, past that its all slip. At least I'm following the speed limit

    vroom vroom go nowhere pretty much sums it up

    thanks for the help btw
    96-97 motor has the speed sensor on the sprocket cover,were the 98-99 has it on the upper crankcase getting signal from the gearbox.the carbs off 898 dont work on 919,the newer carbs have tps on em.if you use carbs without a tps on a motor with an ecu from 96-99,the ignition will be all wrong.
    the 96-97 outer plate has str8 lines on the casting between the holes were the springs are,but the pressure plate on 98-99 is smooth without any lines.
    things that can go wrong and have this kind of prob:someone took the clutch off and when he got it back in he didnt align the oil pump sprocket with the clutch basket(the basket stays higher on the shaft,hence the excessive slack on the clutch arm,and could grind something if it moves out of place)you didnt tell anything bout the judder springs,are they in the clutch assy?are the metal disks discoloured?
    if you got a few pics(and the phone is for calling,nothin else) it would be a lot easier for someone to point you in the right direction,and a lot easier for you dealing with your prob
    There`s only three speeds:fast,very fast,and OH SHIT! Hidden Content

  7. #7
    Not been here that long Scantron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeserv View Post
    96-97 motor has the speed sensor on the sprocket cover,were the 98-99 has it on the upper crankcase getting signal from the gearbox.the carbs off 898 dont work on 919,the newer carbs have tps on em.if you use carbs without a tps on a motor with an ecu from 96-99,the ignition will be all wrong.
    the 96-97 outer plate has str8 lines on the casting between the holes were the springs are,but the pressure plate on 98-99 is smooth without any lines.
    things that can go wrong and have this kind of prob:someone took the clutch off and when he got it back in he didnt align the oil pump sprocket with the clutch basket(the basket stays higher on the shaft,hence the excessive slack on the clutch arm,and could grind something if it moves out of place)you didnt tell anything bout the judder springs,are they in the clutch assy?are the metal disks discoloured?
    if you got a few pics(and the phone is for calling,nothin else) it would be a lot easier for someone to point you in the right direction,and a lot easier for you dealing with your prob

    Holy crap thank you, you could have nailed exactly whats going on. To answer your questions, the judder spring is there and seated properly, but whats the purpose of it? The metal discs are mostly clean looking except for one or two with small scorched looking discoloration marks. I'll hold off on the different motor for now because that crack might not be detrimental to the case like speed said. When you say the previous owner didnt align the oil pump sprocket when he put the clutch back in are you referring to him taking the baskets out and everything with the braker bar on the lock nut etc..? I'll take several higher quality pictures and post them later, no phone pics anymore I promise haha.

    you guys rule, excellent information.

  8. #8
    Meh. Derator. jawhn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    xוuəoчd
    Posts
    7,450

    Bikes:
    98 Repsol Bodywork CBR900RR, 92 Plaid CBR600F2 Trackbike

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    That pink fairies comment is killing me!

    Welcome aboard, BTW. Haven't checked yet to see if you posted up in our Newbie section or not, but good to have you on board.

    A non-technical solution might be oil, as well. If the dipshit that had the bike before you put the wrong kind in (say, car motor oil) that will cause clutch slippage as well...? And is a SUPER easy fix! Just an extra idea...
    __________________
    __________________
    .
    To add pics to your post: Use the "Manage Attachments" button below the "Submit" button

  9. #9
    Not been here that long bikeserv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    cyprus
    Posts
    15

    Bikes:
    97 cbr 900

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Scantron View Post
    Holy crap thank you, you could have nailed exactly whats going on. To answer your questions, the judder spring is there and seated properly, but whats the purpose of it? The metal discs are mostly clean looking except for one or two with small scorched looking discoloration marks. I'll hold off on the different motor for now because that crack might not be detrimental to the case like speed said. When you say the previous owner didnt align the oil pump sprocket when he put the clutch back in are you referring to him taking the baskets out and everything with the braker bar on the lock nut etc..? I'll take several higher quality pictures and post them later, no phone pics anymore I promise haha.

    you guys rule, excellent information.
    The judder springs are there to make the clutch engaging more progressively on take off.If you got a few discoloration marks,dont worry,they`re ok.Check the inside of the clutch cover to see any signs of grinding.In the how to stuff,cbr900rr has a post on disassembling the clutch,should help you out
    There`s only three speeds:fast,very fast,and OH SHIT! Hidden Content

  10. #10
    RRzone Elder cbr900racer77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    middle tennessee
    Posts
    2,751

    Bikes:
    XX conversion is complete and kicking Busa butt

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    Check your steels for warp. Lay them on a glass tabletop and check with feeler gauge. And yes, he meant PO may have removed the basket at some point. You have to pay particular attention when installing it to make sure basket is engaged with drive sprocket for oil pump. You should know if it wasnt (no oil pressure and bike would overheat from no working waterpump)
    "Crankenstein" is a GO...

  11. #11
    Not been here that long Scantron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    Ok, just popped off the inner basket, found an extra judder spring??? wtf, one was seating improperly, taking up metal disc space, putting only one in with the seat, this may fix it, uploading tons of pics anyway for next post.

  12. #12
    Not been here that long Scantron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...s/DSCI0005.jpg
    9 frictions in

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...s/DSCI0015.jpg
    two judder springs and a seat

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...s/DSCI0016.jpg
    if my palm was the bottom of the basket, thats how its seated right? dome from the center like an arena?

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...s/DSCI0018.jpg
    scorch marks on a steel

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...s/DSCI0019.jpg
    tons of discoloration on one and not another

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...s/DSCI0017.jpg
    all discs, i think

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...s/DSCI0020.jpg
    pressure plate, lifter piece and bearing

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...s/DSCI0022.jpg
    springs and pressure plate rightside up, with lines, so its 96-97

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...s/DSCI0023.jpg
    New OEM spring length, soooo long

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...s/DSCI0024.jpg
    clutch lever lifter

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...s/DSCI0025.jpg
    clutch cover

  13. #13
    RRzone Elder Justin989RR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Small Town Sylvia Kansas
    Posts
    899

    Bikes:
    98 900RR 99 TL1000R 03 Ninja 250R (Wifes Bike) 84 KLT 250A2 Kawi 3 Wheeler! Off Road fun! 98 YZ 90cc

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    wow that steel looks like it has been hot! what kinda oil are you running?
    I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
    Albert Einstein

  14. #14
    Not been here that long Scantron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    motul 3000. this discoloration is new though so its probably from the heat of this slipping?

  15. #15
    RRzone Elder cbr900racer77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    middle tennessee
    Posts
    2,751

    Bikes:
    XX conversion is complete and kicking Busa butt

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    The bigger side of the judder goes toward clutch cover. Don't sweat the discoloration of the steels. Warpage is how you judge if they are good or not. Did you notice the further you got into the clutch pack the better they looked? If they aren't warped, they are fine.
    "Crankenstein" is a GO...

  16. #16
    Not been here that long Scantron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    ok, well the ten plates still dont fit and the oil pump sprocket was on and lined up properly. I've seriously exhausted all resources, I was even going to put a washer between the lifter and the bearing, but I don't want to hurt this anymore. These pictures are with ten friction plates and nine steels, as the manual has the 96-97 clutch set up as.

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...s/DSCI0001.jpg

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...DSCI0002-1.jpg

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...s/DSCI0003.jpg

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...s/DSCI0004.jpg
    In these pics, you can see the steel discs go flush against the end of that groove and the last friction is only support by its slots in the outer basket, sitting above the inner basket, this seems to be my issue.

    The issue is that somehow ten frictions and nine steels are too thick for my basket and therefore create too much play with the lifter piece (see below pics)

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...DSCI0005-1.jpg

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...DSCI0006-1.jpg

    These two are demonstrating the clutch arm thing engagement, first with the lever being released, and 2nd pic with the clutch lever being pulled in, which only takes that space of play out and does not lift the pressure plate at all. This makes no sense

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...s/DSCI0010.jpg

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...DSCI0011-1.jpg


    So is it a 97 ten plate clutch or not? Thats still the question at hand,

  17. #17
    RRzone Elder cbr900racer77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    middle tennessee
    Posts
    2,751

    Bikes:
    XX conversion is complete and kicking Busa butt

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    Does your basket have one or two gears in the rear? It may just be a shadow (or I'm blind as a bat) but it looks like there are 2 in that 1st pic. If so, you have a 93-95 basket. If it only has 1 then it's a late model.
    "Crankenstein" is a GO...

  18. #18
    Not been here that long Scantron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    16

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    If its what i think youre talking about, only one.

    OK i put all ten frictions in and to take out slack from the lifter piece i put in two washers i drilled out. Very sketchy but its held up, no slipping.

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...DSCI0005-2.jpg

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...DSCI0006-2.jpg

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...DSCI0007-1.jpg

    try not to flame me for how ghetto this looks, its working at the moment until I can figure out whats causing the issue.

  19. #19
    RRzone Elder ghbzorro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    A Canadian back home, at least for now.
    Posts
    1,112

    Bikes:
    Another '98 CBR 900 RR now for the track; '88 Hawk GT will be back on the road come Spring

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    How confident are you that you've got the correct (and un-modified) clutch lifter pin?

  20. #20
    Not been here that long bikeserv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    cyprus
    Posts
    15

    Bikes:
    97 cbr 900

    Default Re: Major clutch issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Scantron View Post
    If its what i think youre talking about, only one.

    OK i put all ten frictions in and to take out slack from the lifter piece i put in two washers i drilled out. Very sketchy but its held up, no slipping.

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...DSCI0005-2.jpg

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...DSCI0006-2.jpg

    http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l9...DSCI0007-1.jpg

    try not to flame me for how ghetto this looks, its working at the moment until I can figure out whats causing the issue.
    Your having a 96-97 basket.the biggest difference about the 96-97 basket is thats its meant to be used with slightly thinner friction plates than 92,93,94,95,98,99.96-97 are 2.6-2.8mm,and the other models are 2.9-3 something
    There`s only three speeds:fast,very fast,and OH SHIT! Hidden Content

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

You can help to support this site by making a donation below
(even a small donation makes a big difference)
 
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure!